Jersey Light

[00:00:00] For the Northern Cardinal, listen for their rapid fire, cheer, cheer, cheer, or birdie, birdie, birdie, or sometimes a combination of the two.

[00:00:15] Cheer, cheer, birdie, birdie, birdie. When whistled it sounds like this.

[00:00:20] Apologies for this interruption but we have some breaking news.

[00:00:25] Two Cat Kitchen, it's time for us to pitch in and start another Two Cat show.

[00:00:31] Down at the Two Cat Kitchen we're starting on a mission to put you in the culinary know.

[00:00:39] You've got the finest recipes you ever will find guaranteed to show you all a mighty fine time.

[00:00:48] We're here at the Two Cat Kitchen, time for a new edition of the Culinary Two Cat Show.

[00:00:56] The Culinary Two Cat Show.

[00:01:04] Welcome to the Two Cat Kitchen, the show that mixes musical mayhem with culinary calamity.

[00:01:10] Sarah Grady is here to help with the mixing.

[00:01:13] Hey everyone.

[00:01:14] Each episode features new songs, a new recipe, and a special guest. Who's our guest today?

[00:01:21] Today we have Courtney Schmidt.

[00:01:23] Courtney is a scientist with the Narragansett Bay Estuary Program here in southern New England.

[00:01:29] She's going to tell us all about Narragansett Bay and New Jersey.

[00:01:33] Wow that sounds really interesting.

[00:01:35] You know each episode of the Two Cat Kitchen also includes an informative segment.

[00:01:41] What do we have for the people today?

[00:01:43] It's conversations with cats who know where it's at.

[00:01:47] Today we continue our conversation with noted matron of the theater, Madame Lemieux.

[00:01:53] Great. Can't wait to hear that.

[00:01:56] But wait a minute, is that the Coconauts?

[00:01:59] I think so. Let me go check.

[00:02:03] Way too many glow sticks.

[00:02:15] Okay well I hope they're ready because it's time for our first musical number.

[00:02:20] It's the Coconauts with Brightside here on the Two Cat Kitchen.

[00:03:12] I didn't want to know

[00:03:14] But I knew there'd be a price to pay

[00:03:23] Knew you had to go

[00:03:26] So I'm looking on the bright side

[00:03:32] Bright side

[00:03:35] Bright side of life

[00:03:40] Looking on the bright side

[00:03:43] Bright side

[00:03:46] Bright side

[00:03:51] Of life

[00:03:58] A feeling of wonder

[00:04:17] Another link in the chain

[00:04:25] But after all that's gone down

[00:04:27] Some doubts they still remain

[00:04:31] I'll keep looking ahead

[00:04:39] Keep on moving along

[00:04:42] And keep on believing

[00:04:49] Believing we still belong

[00:04:52] And I'm looking on the bright side

[00:04:59] Bright side

[00:05:02] Bright side of life

[00:05:07] Looking on the bright side

[00:05:10] Bright side

[00:05:13] Bright side

[00:05:18] Of life

[00:05:45] Bright side

[00:06:08] Bright side

[00:06:32] Bright side

[00:06:35] Bright side of life

[00:06:40] Looking on the bright side

[00:06:43] Bright side

[00:06:46] Bright side

[00:06:51] Of life

[00:07:14] Now it's down to the wire

[00:07:17] The final bets are in

[00:07:22] And they're giving even money

[00:07:27] If we lose again or if we're gonna win

[00:07:31] The game we're playing

[00:07:39] Is not for the faint of heart

[00:07:46] But we knew that this would be the case

[00:07:49] Yeah right from the start

[00:07:52] But I'm looking on the bright side

[00:07:59] Bright side

[00:08:02] Bright side of life

[00:08:06] Looking on the bright side

[00:08:10] Bright side

[00:08:13] Bright side

[00:08:18] Of life

[00:08:45] We're back at the Toucad Kitchen.

[00:08:47] I'm here with Sarah Grady.

[00:08:49] Sarah, how are you doing tonight?

[00:08:50] Doing pretty well.

[00:08:51] Alright, thanks for joining us.

[00:08:53] And we have our guest for this episode,

[00:08:56] Courtney Schmidt, staff scientist

[00:08:58] with the Narragansett Bay Estuary Program.

[00:09:01] Hi Courtney, thanks for joining us.

[00:09:03] Hi Rick and Sarah, thank you for having me.

[00:09:05] It's so great that you could join us here.

[00:09:08] So you work for the Narragansett Bay Estuary Program

[00:09:11] here in Rhode Island.

[00:09:13] And so tell us, what kind of stuff do you do?

[00:09:15] What is the program designed to do, I guess,

[00:09:18] is what I'm asking.

[00:09:20] So the Narragansett Bay Estuary Program

[00:09:22] is part of 28 national estuary programs,

[00:09:26] which are authorized through the Clean Water Act

[00:09:30] and administered by the EPA.

[00:09:32] So it's a really good way

[00:09:35] of getting federal money down to local hands.

[00:09:38] And what we do with that

[00:09:40] is we think about things through the lens of

[00:09:44] clean water, healthy habitat,

[00:09:47] and really a good quality of life for everyone

[00:09:49] who lives, works, and plays in the region.

[00:09:52] And that covers all the fresh and the saltwater

[00:09:55] that discharge into Narragansett Bay,

[00:09:58] Little Narragansett Bay, and the coastal ponds.

[00:10:01] So it's about 2,000 square miles

[00:10:04] and two million people.

[00:10:06] Wow, that sounds interesting.

[00:10:08] So it's not just science in the sense of

[00:10:11] like ecology or things along those lines.

[00:10:14] You also do things that involve

[00:10:16] the local communities and...

[00:10:19] Yeah, so we kind of have organized ourselves

[00:10:23] under three key services.

[00:10:26] So we talk about how we convene,

[00:10:28] we fund, and we do science communication.

[00:10:31] So in the convening sphere,

[00:10:33] we sit in a really squishy space

[00:10:37] between the environmental managers,

[00:10:39] the researchers, and the advocacy groups

[00:10:44] and the community-led watershed level groups.

[00:10:47] And so we can work to bring those groups together

[00:10:50] to start talking through sticky problems

[00:10:53] and get collaborative solutions going.

[00:10:56] Under funding, we try and pass the money

[00:10:59] that we get from the federal government

[00:11:01] straight on to those local groups.

[00:11:03] And we do...we fund project planning,

[00:11:05] we fund science that needs to be done,

[00:11:07] we fund outreach and education

[00:11:09] that needs to happen.

[00:11:11] And then under science communication,

[00:11:13] that's mostly where my role falls

[00:11:16] as staff scientist is to take the science

[00:11:19] that gets behind peer review

[00:11:22] or is not accessible to everybody

[00:11:24] for whatever reason and make it accessible.

[00:11:27] So that's either working with other scientists

[00:11:30] to write or build websites and reports

[00:11:34] that everyone can have access to,

[00:11:37] or it's finding ways to creatively share information

[00:11:42] so that people who are interested

[00:11:45] have access to the same level of information

[00:11:48] that the researchers and the managers do.

[00:11:51] Wow, yeah, that's really interesting.

[00:11:54] So it sounds like on one level you're taking...

[00:11:57] Well, the EPA is a federal organization, right?

[00:12:00] And so they are kind of distant

[00:12:03] from the local communities maybe.

[00:12:05] And so you're taking funding from them

[00:12:07] that they make available

[00:12:09] and kind of making it more accessible to local people,

[00:12:12] which is a good thing.

[00:12:14] And then you're also making information more accessible,

[00:12:16] which is great.

[00:12:17] That's the idea.

[00:12:18] Everything we do is pretty much open source.

[00:12:20] So if we create something,

[00:12:23] we put all of the raw information

[00:12:26] we use to create that,

[00:12:27] the methods of how we did it,

[00:12:29] the data we pulled, the people we talked to.

[00:12:32] We put that all in the documents themselves.

[00:12:35] So everything that we do is completely transparent.

[00:12:38] Wow, yeah, that's good.

[00:12:40] So I'm curious, like Ana,

[00:12:43] you said you're involved with communication a lot, right?

[00:12:47] What are some of the things you do

[00:12:49] on a day-to-day basis,

[00:12:51] just to give folks an idea

[00:12:54] of some of the specific things maybe you're involved in,

[00:12:59] or maybe one or two?

[00:13:00] So my role is to manage the science,

[00:13:04] the projects and programs of the Estuary program,

[00:13:08] and also manage grants,

[00:13:11] and I manage our internship program.

[00:13:14] So on any given day,

[00:13:16] I could be talking to people that we've given money to

[00:13:19] to figure out what's going on.

[00:13:22] Do they need help?

[00:13:24] How are they doing?

[00:13:26] If they're close to finishing out,

[00:13:28] like what reports we might need to check all the boxes

[00:13:31] that need to be checked,

[00:13:33] make sure that they get paid.

[00:13:35] If it's the interns,

[00:13:36] I work with anybody in our partnership who needs help

[00:13:40] and develop job descriptions,

[00:13:42] and then we advertise those,

[00:13:45] and I will work in the hiring process

[00:13:47] to hire good students to help our partners out.

[00:13:52] And then if it's in the projects and programs sphere,

[00:13:55] I could be writing a report.

[00:13:56] I could pick a topic I want to learn about

[00:13:59] and write about that in a way that I can share with everybody.

[00:14:03] So one recent one we did was I built what's called a story map.

[00:14:09] It's really a dynamic website that matches video with pictures

[00:14:15] and graphs and graphical information and text

[00:14:19] on solar installations in the forests in the region.

[00:14:25] So as part of our renewable energy goals,

[00:14:30] we need renewable energy,

[00:14:32] and solar is really important to that equation.

[00:14:35] However, we're seeing a lot of our forests

[00:14:38] being lost to these installations.

[00:14:40] And the challenge there is our forests are really good places

[00:14:44] to capture carbon emissions.

[00:14:46] So trees take up CO2 as part of the photosynthetic process,

[00:14:52] and they put it into the tree,

[00:14:56] and they drive it down into the ground.

[00:14:58] And so it stores it and traps carbon there for a time.

[00:15:03] But if you're taking out those trees to put up solar panels,

[00:15:07] what is the balance there?

[00:15:09] And so it opened up a large conversation on what we,

[00:15:13] as in this area, could talk about in terms of development.

[00:15:18] We need to develop.

[00:15:19] We need places for people to live,

[00:15:21] and we need places for people to shop and work.

[00:15:24] But how can we do that in such a way that protects the forest

[00:15:29] and these regions that we need to protect our water quality,

[00:15:33] to give us recreation opportunities,

[00:15:35] to keep us cool?

[00:15:37] And who doesn't love a good tree?

[00:15:41] So I did not know anything about that.

[00:15:44] I have no degree in anything related to solar or trees or forests,

[00:15:50] and I spent a number of years working with a lot of super smart people

[00:15:56] to put that together in something that everyone could share in.

[00:16:01] Yeah, so it sounds like the scope of the Narragansett Bay estuary program

[00:16:07] is a lot more than just the estuary.

[00:16:09] It is, yeah.

[00:16:10] We think about the land and the water.

[00:16:12] Fresh salt, really everything, and then the people.

[00:16:17] Because if we don't have the people, then we don't have what we do.

[00:16:21] There is a lot of place-based identity with Narragansett Bay and Rhode Island.

[00:16:28] It's difficult to be in Rhode Island

[00:16:30] and manage to not see Narragansett Bay in some way, shape or form

[00:16:35] while spending the 45 minutes going from north to south.

[00:16:39] Exactly.

[00:16:40] But when you are elsewhere in the country or elsewhere around New England,

[00:16:47] do you feel like you have a sense of place-based pride

[00:16:51] for Narragansett Bay or for Rhode Island?

[00:16:54] I do.

[00:16:56] I've been here 18 years now.

[00:16:58] This year is 18 years.

[00:16:59] And so there's a good chunk of my adult life has been spent

[00:17:04] in the state of Rhode Island.

[00:17:06] It's kind of cool.

[00:17:08] So I like to travel.

[00:17:10] Then when you go to places and everyone uses Rhode Island

[00:17:14] as a unit of measurement,

[00:17:16] and you're like, yes, it really is that small.

[00:17:18] It's okay.

[00:17:19] I don't know what it's like something 300 Rhode Islands fit in Texas

[00:17:22] or whatever that little nugget is.

[00:17:26] But there is something to be said for it.

[00:17:29] And it's got its own tiny but mighty...

[00:17:33] It's tiny but mighty.

[00:17:35] You know, it's fun.

[00:17:36] It's the small town.

[00:17:38] Yes.

[00:17:39] There is that.

[00:17:41] And I think because I haven't been here for my entire life,

[00:17:45] I can take pride in that.

[00:17:47] But I do understand that when you grow up in a small town,

[00:17:50] I grew up in a small town in another state

[00:17:52] that you kind of don't want to associate with it anymore.

[00:17:56] So I don't know.

[00:17:57] I'll just see it through my kids' eyes as they grow up here,

[00:17:59] what that means to them.

[00:18:01] And what state do you come from?

[00:18:03] So I grew up in New Jersey.

[00:18:05] I grew up actually in northern New Jersey,

[00:18:07] right outside New York City.

[00:18:09] And so this whole idea of an urban estuary,

[00:18:12] urban areas being right on the coastline

[00:18:16] is really where I grew up.

[00:18:18] It's part of...

[00:18:19] It's in my culture, in my nature.

[00:18:23] And so coming here has not been that much different.

[00:18:26] I joke about Rhode Island being Jersey light

[00:18:29] because it's got all the good stuff.

[00:18:32] You have all the great food, you have the great people,

[00:18:36] you have all the corruption,

[00:18:38] but none of the congestion and a quarter of the people.

[00:18:42] So it's great in that respect.

[00:18:45] Rhode Island is like Jersey North.

[00:18:48] I call it Jersey light because it really is.

[00:18:51] We have these conversations all the time about knowing a guy

[00:18:56] and all of the things that...

[00:18:59] I'd much rather go through security at T.F. Green than Newark.

[00:19:04] T.F. Green is...

[00:19:06] That is my favorite airport ever.

[00:19:08] I have gone through Logan once

[00:19:11] and I will endeavor never to do that again.

[00:19:14] And I don't miss Newark Airport at all.

[00:19:17] My favorite thing about that airport is just the giant sailboat.

[00:19:21] It's like you're really...

[00:19:23] You're like, I'm where I belong.

[00:19:25] You walk in and there's this giant sailboat.

[00:19:27] And it's a legit sailboat.

[00:19:29] And you're just like, wait, wait, wait.

[00:19:31] This isn't a mock-up. This is a legitimate sailboat.

[00:19:35] And that is something I never realized about the sailboats

[00:19:38] because Newport's awesome, America's cup.

[00:19:40] I love going down those museums there.

[00:19:42] The keels on those boats are huge.

[00:19:45] Like I've never realized just how deep those go.

[00:19:50] It's like an iceberg.

[00:19:52] It is.

[00:19:53] Yeah.

[00:19:54] And it's because when they sail, they tip over so much.

[00:19:57] I'm not doing that.

[00:19:59] That's not going to be my...

[00:20:00] They're always really shiny and sleek too, I suppose.

[00:20:03] Someone's got to keep them clean.

[00:20:05] All right. So I have a question.

[00:20:07] I'm wondering how you actually got interested in science.

[00:20:11] Were you always interested in coastal science, the ocean?

[00:20:16] Or did you kind of come into that later on?

[00:20:22] No.

[00:20:23] So this is the...

[00:20:25] I really think we should have my mom here

[00:20:27] and ask her if I blew anything up as a child because I did...

[00:20:31] I think I was always playing,

[00:20:33] whether it was in the kitchen or out in the yard

[00:20:36] about understanding how the world works.

[00:20:40] I grew up with a family of people,

[00:20:43] my mom's family in particular,

[00:20:45] who just loved being outdoors and gardening

[00:20:48] and the whole concept of being a steward to the planet.

[00:20:52] And so I picked that up at a very early age

[00:20:57] and it kind of rolled with it.

[00:20:59] I've always loved the ocean.

[00:21:01] I would vacation in lakes, all these things,

[00:21:04] but always drawn to the ocean.

[00:21:06] I guess there's just some magic.

[00:21:08] It's a magical place.

[00:21:10] And so somewhere around when I was a kid,

[00:21:12] I said, I want to study the ocean.

[00:21:14] Most kids in the 80s probably thought dolphins were cool

[00:21:19] and wanted to talk to dolphins.

[00:21:21] I never let go of that.

[00:21:23] I let go of a lot of different things of talking to dolphins,

[00:21:27] working in blue water oceanography,

[00:21:30] going out on these boats.

[00:21:33] But I also never lost the love

[00:21:35] of just how people interact with their space.

[00:21:38] And so living in a coastal state

[00:21:41] and then coming here to graduate school,

[00:21:43] I really want to know the human induced changes

[00:21:47] to our coastal areas.

[00:21:50] And so that whole idea of how do we live with the coast?

[00:21:55] How do we move around in this space?

[00:21:58] And then how does the coast react to that?

[00:22:01] And urban estuary and ecology is kind of where it went.

[00:22:07] And I have been dabbling in that.

[00:22:12] Since I was in high school,

[00:22:14] I did a volunteer work at the Hackensack

[00:22:17] Meadowlands Environment Center,

[00:22:19] which is on the Hackensack River.

[00:22:21] If you know football and you know where Giant,

[00:22:24] well it's now MetLife Stadium, where Giant Stadium is,

[00:22:26] it's actually just like the next town over.

[00:22:28] And it's this environmental center

[00:22:30] stuffed in the middle of the meadowlands

[00:22:32] of soprano fame.

[00:22:35] And it's amazing because it's this area

[00:22:37] that's completely natural.

[00:22:39] But if you pop your head up and look,

[00:22:42] you see the New York City skyline.

[00:22:44] You see the rest of suburban New Jersey.

[00:22:47] But yet you have this whole wetland salt marsh ecosystem

[00:22:52] stuck down there.

[00:22:54] And that's kind of just brought that with me

[00:22:57] and ended up hanging out in private.

[00:22:59] It's now doing a lot of the same stuff.

[00:23:01] What's amazing about the meadowlands

[00:23:04] is that you can stop at the rest stop there

[00:23:08] and stand next to the chain link fence.

[00:23:11] And there's a little interpretive sign

[00:23:14] that tells you all about the salt marsh.

[00:23:16] It feels a little bit sad,

[00:23:19] but it's also really inspiring

[00:23:21] because you're there in the midst of all of the highway

[00:23:25] and the trucks fueling up and stuff.

[00:23:28] And yet here's this environment persisting.

[00:23:33] Is that something you would do, Courtney?

[00:23:35] Would you put up an interpretive sign like that?

[00:23:38] You guys do stuff like that?

[00:23:40] What we do, we physically don't put up the signs.

[00:23:44] A lot of times what we do is we work with

[00:23:47] the groups that do that and we'll help them pay for it

[00:23:49] through our grants and outreach.

[00:23:52] I don't think the Estuary Program

[00:23:55] has been involved in a sign on the side of a highway.

[00:23:58] I know a few of our signs around,

[00:24:00] but none of them on the side of a highway.

[00:24:02] But yeah, back to New Jersey.

[00:24:04] The New Jersey Turnpike is a very interesting dichotomy

[00:24:09] because it runs right through and over the meadowlands.

[00:24:15] And the Pulaski Skyway, which runs east-west,

[00:24:21] and the Turnpike runs under it,

[00:24:23] is the longest landlocked bridge, I think, in the United States.

[00:24:27] The only water it goes over is the Hackensack River.

[00:24:30] It starts in Norke and ends in Jersey City,

[00:24:35] and there is one entrance and exit in the middle in Kearney.

[00:24:38] And you enter an exit in the left-hand lane.

[00:24:42] So only if you want to take your life into your hands

[00:24:45] will you come up that because you have no vision

[00:24:47] and people do 60, 70 miles an hour

[00:24:50] because this is New Jersey,

[00:24:52] instead of the 40 posted speed limit.

[00:24:54] It is a marvel of engineering.

[00:24:59] Fun fact right here in the 2K Kitchen.

[00:25:03] The next time I'm down there,

[00:25:06] if I have an extra span of time to kill,

[00:25:09] I may just drive over the bridge.

[00:25:11] You could? Yeah!

[00:25:12] I would advise starting in Norke or Jersey City

[00:25:15] and going the other way.

[00:25:16] Don't go up in the middle.

[00:25:17] But if you're on the Turnpike, you see it.

[00:25:19] You drive underneath of it.

[00:25:20] I've seen it.

[00:25:21] It's this giant bridge.

[00:25:22] I guess I always wondered what that was.

[00:25:24] Where does this bridge go?

[00:25:27] This is how we ended up,

[00:25:29] because the river kind of exists between these two ridges.

[00:25:32] And so you have like, Norke comes up

[00:25:35] and you get up to this ridge and then it goes down

[00:25:38] and then you come back up and you have Jersey City

[00:25:40] and then goes down again to the Hudson River.

[00:25:42] So like you had to get across that somehow.

[00:25:45] But yes, in the middlelands you can go canoeing,

[00:25:47] you can go kayaking,

[00:25:50] you can do all sorts of things.

[00:25:53] You can take the train through it too.

[00:25:54] But that's like, the Amtrak around here does that too.

[00:25:57] You go right up along the Connecticut shoreline

[00:26:00] and one side is the marshland

[00:26:03] and the other side is New London.

[00:26:25] Alright, I'm going to change the subject a little bit here.

[00:26:27] Two things. I have two questions here.

[00:26:30] Number one, this is for both of you guys.

[00:26:34] Something about a sea shanty involving horseshoe crabs?

[00:26:39] Can you talk me through this?

[00:26:42] Alright, so part of the things we do

[00:26:44] for science communication at the Eshoer program

[00:26:46] is we will host periodic events.

[00:26:48] And last October we hosted an event

[00:26:51] called Wild Things in the Narragansett Bay region.

[00:26:55] And it was a celebration of all sorts of plants and animals,

[00:27:00] land, sea, freshwater, saltwater.

[00:27:03] We tried to really cover everything.

[00:27:05] So this one day was scratching the surface

[00:27:08] of all the really cool things,

[00:27:11] cool wild things that live in the region.

[00:27:15] And as we were going through the saltwater critters

[00:27:19] and looking for our iconic species,

[00:27:21] the things we wanted to talk about,

[00:27:23] we were, the staff was discussing horseshoe crabs.

[00:27:26] And I said, I know someone

[00:27:30] who has done a lot of work in horseshoe crabs

[00:27:33] who would probably be really interested in sharing a story.

[00:27:36] And that was Sarah.

[00:27:38] And in my way to coax out of Sarah

[00:27:42] to actually say yes to do this was

[00:27:44] have fun with it.

[00:27:46] This is a really chill crowd.

[00:27:49] I mean, we're expecting,

[00:27:50] it was a whole day event and we were feeding people

[00:27:52] so I'm like, we're just going to have lots of people in the room

[00:27:55] who really just like all things nature.

[00:27:59] So make it fun, don't stress about it.

[00:28:02] This is not, we're not grading you on anything.

[00:28:06] And so she's like, oh, I'm in.

[00:28:08] And a couple weeks go by

[00:28:10] and Sarah gives me a call

[00:28:13] and asks me if she could sing.

[00:28:17] And after checking with my boss

[00:28:21] because I was actually petrified my boss,

[00:28:23] if I had said yes, I said yes immediately

[00:28:25] because I know Sarah and I'm like, this is awesome.

[00:28:27] It's going to be great.

[00:28:28] Trustworthy.

[00:28:29] I trust Sarah.

[00:28:30] Fortunately my boss did not know her as well

[00:28:32] and I was like, all right.

[00:28:34] She's legit.

[00:28:35] I love my boss.

[00:28:36] Trust me on this.

[00:28:38] And my boss, because she's like, you know what?

[00:28:40] Let's go with it.

[00:28:41] This is going to be a really fun event.

[00:28:42] Let's figure this out.

[00:28:44] Go for it.

[00:28:46] I'm pretty confident my boss did not know

[00:28:48] what she was going to get herself into,

[00:28:51] but it worked.

[00:28:52] And Sarah shared with us a written sea shanty

[00:28:57] on horseshoe crabs.

[00:28:58] Yes, yes I did.

[00:28:59] Complete with the PowerPoint to go along with it.

[00:29:03] Synchronized.

[00:29:04] Horseshoe crab sea shanty.

[00:29:06] That kind of makes sense in a way, I guess.

[00:29:09] Wow.

[00:29:12] It worked.

[00:29:13] It was the hit of the day.

[00:29:16] I think we're both getting a lot of phone calls

[00:29:18] and emails about this.

[00:29:19] It's gotten a lot of mileage.

[00:29:22] May have convinced the state of Massachusetts

[00:29:25] to change their horseshoe crab regulations.

[00:29:28] I was going to ask you about that.

[00:29:31] Because your new job, all of a sudden after this event,

[00:29:36] her new day job started really talking about

[00:29:41] changing their horseshoe crab program.

[00:29:45] Yeah.

[00:29:46] There was already a big effort to improve

[00:29:52] the horseshoe crab regulations in Massachusetts,

[00:29:55] but the campaign was somewhat enhanced by the song.

[00:30:03] At least I hope so.

[00:30:05] I hope I played my part.

[00:30:07] If we find this out, I actually need to get someone

[00:30:10] to write this down so I can turn around

[00:30:13] and the next time, every few years the EPA likes to make sure

[00:30:16] we're doing a good job.

[00:30:17] I want to turn that around and be like,

[00:30:19] so you want to hear our impact?

[00:30:21] I know.

[00:30:22] It's hard to measure that kind of impact

[00:30:25] because it's not dollars or acres,

[00:30:31] but it's pretty, you know, it's making a change, right?

[00:30:35] I cannot take credit for the big regulatory changes.

[00:30:40] I'll take credit for the song.

[00:30:42] We'll take credit for the song, and if anyone wants it,

[00:30:45] it's freely available on YouTube.

[00:30:47] Yeah, we'll put a link to it.

[00:30:49] That sounds great.

[00:30:51] All right, Courtney, one thing we ask all our guests here

[00:31:10] on the Two Cat Kitchen is what was your earliest musical memory?

[00:31:17] So this is...

[00:31:23] I was a toddler in the early 80s, so this is probably...

[00:31:27] I don't know, I guess I was two or three,

[00:31:29] but my parents and I used to vacation in Lake Luzerne, New York,

[00:31:36] which is just south of Lake George.

[00:31:39] My dad's brother-in-law owned a cabin,

[00:31:42] and we would rent it for like a week every summer.

[00:31:45] And on the same lake there was this music camp

[00:31:49] for those probably middle school, high school kids

[00:31:52] who were just so musically inclined

[00:31:54] that their parents sent them away to these summer camps

[00:31:56] to get better.

[00:31:58] And I don't know, every month or something

[00:32:00] they would put on shows that the community could come to.

[00:32:04] And the first memory of those summers,

[00:32:08] I was little, I remember being outside the place

[00:32:12] because again, only my parents would be crazy enough

[00:32:16] to bring a toddler to a classical chamber musical show.

[00:32:23] And so they did this, but I was outside.

[00:32:26] You could still hear it outside,

[00:32:28] because I do remember hearing the music

[00:32:29] and I would just wander around

[00:32:31] and hear all this beautiful classical music

[00:32:34] and it was orchestral.

[00:32:37] And then later in subsequent years,

[00:32:40] so we would go every single year,

[00:32:42] we never did the show again,

[00:32:45] but when they would practice,

[00:32:47] because it was so quiet up there,

[00:32:50] you could hear them practicing all around the lake.

[00:32:53] And so my dad would get my mom and I,

[00:32:56] bundle us up, put us into the canoe,

[00:32:59] and we would row to where their property was.

[00:33:04] So they had their own beach

[00:33:05] and we would kind of just sit out there in the canoe

[00:33:08] under the stars listening to these really talented children play music.

[00:33:17] And we would watch the stars,

[00:33:20] my mom would show me where all the constellations were,

[00:33:28] tell the stories attached to them,

[00:33:32] and just listen to this music.

[00:33:33] It was really peaceful and calm.

[00:33:37] That's really special.

[00:33:40] That's great. Like a free concert almost.

[00:33:43] It was.

[00:33:44] It was total.

[00:33:45] And that's, I think, why my parents really liked it.

[00:33:47] It was this free concert.

[00:33:48] You could just go and hang out

[00:33:50] if you were willing to be out there in the middle of the night.

[00:33:53] It's like eight, nine o'clock at night or something like that.

[00:33:56] But I thought it was great.

[00:33:58] Yeah. Wow, that's fantastic.

[00:33:59] That's a great memory.

[00:34:00] Do you like classical music now?

[00:34:03] Yes.

[00:34:05] I was actually thinking about this today

[00:34:07] because my family always had music on

[00:34:13] and it went from the classical Beethoven, Bach, Chopin,

[00:34:17] pretty much all the way up.

[00:34:19] My grandparents were in big band.

[00:34:21] My parents, 50, 60, 70s.

[00:34:25] I didn't realize how much both my parents really liked the singer-songwriters

[00:34:29] until I was really starting to think about a lot of the music I heard

[00:34:32] and actually some of the music I still like.

[00:34:34] So yeah, it was an eclectic run in our house,

[00:34:37] but always on those vacations, my mom always had a classical music on.

[00:34:40] I mean, we didn't...

[00:34:42] There was no television.

[00:34:44] There was no cable.

[00:34:46] The reception was terrible.

[00:34:47] We're in the middle of the mountains in New York.

[00:34:49] And so one of the few stations that could come in

[00:34:51] was this classical music station.

[00:34:53] So she just always had it on.

[00:34:56] Wow, that's great.

[00:34:57] Well, thanks for sharing that with us.

[00:34:59] Yeah, and we're going to wrap things up

[00:35:01] for the interview portion of our episode tonight,

[00:35:04] but we'll be back in just a minute to talk about a recipe.

[00:35:08] Can't wait for this.

[00:35:09] I've heard that it's been a matter of discussion,

[00:35:12] so we'll see what we come up with.

[00:35:14] We'll be right back here in the Two Cat Kitchen.

[00:35:17] It's time for another musical number here in the kitchen.

[00:35:22] Sarah, what do we have?

[00:35:24] We have Close to Me by The Cure.

[00:35:26] Oh, well, you know, in our last episode,

[00:35:29] we heard Love Cats by The Cure.

[00:35:30] Is this a trend?

[00:35:32] I sure hope so.

[00:35:33] All right, here we go.

[00:36:16] I'm here, I sleep today.

[00:36:21] I never thought this day could end.

[00:36:23] I never thought tonight could ever be this close to me.

[00:36:35] Just try to see in the dark.

[00:36:44] Just try to make it work, to feel the fear

[00:36:49] before you're here.

[00:36:52] I make the shades come muscly close,

[00:36:55] pull my eyes out, hold my breath and wait

[00:36:59] until I shake.

[00:37:03] But if I had your faith,

[00:37:05] then I can make it safe and clean.

[00:37:12] Oh, if only I was sure

[00:37:16] that my head on the door was a dream.

[00:37:45] But this, I made myself so sick.

[00:37:48] I wish I'd stayed asleep today.

[00:37:54] I never thought this day could end.

[00:37:56] I never thought tonight could ever be this close to me.

[00:38:04] But if I had your faith,

[00:38:07] then I can make it safe and clean.

[00:38:14] Oh, if only I was sure

[00:38:17] that my head on the door was a dream.

[00:39:17] And we're back at the Two Cat Kitchen

[00:39:20] with Courtney's recipe.

[00:39:23] And since an estuary is a mixed liquid,

[00:39:26] I believe you have a mixed drink or two to tell us about?

[00:39:30] Sure.

[00:39:31] First, here in the kitchen, this is great.

[00:39:34] Yes!

[00:39:35] I don't know what it says about me

[00:39:37] that I have on my hand multiple recipes for cocktails,

[00:39:43] but I'm going to say it's because I like to host

[00:39:47] and like people coming over,

[00:39:49] and so I've taken upon ourselves

[00:39:51] to have a special drink for different things.

[00:39:53] So I'm going to go with that.

[00:39:56] So the first one, when I asked my family

[00:40:01] what I should talk about with recipes,

[00:40:03] we did talk about the drink recipes,

[00:40:05] and the first one that came up

[00:40:07] that was unanimous of the over 21 crowd in my household

[00:40:11] was a rosemary grapefruit.

[00:40:15] They call it a rosemary grapefruit refresher,

[00:40:18] but it's used grapefruit juice,

[00:40:21] and I like gin.

[00:40:24] My mom mad at it with vodka, said it was very good,

[00:40:26] I like gin.

[00:40:27] And then you make raspberry,

[00:40:29] not raspberry, rosemary simple syrup,

[00:40:31] which is super easy to do.

[00:40:33] You make a simple syrup,

[00:40:34] and you put rosemary in it as the sugar melts,

[00:40:39] and you just kind of let it sit and steep for a while.

[00:40:42] Alright, so for those of us who don't know

[00:40:44] what a simple syrup is,

[00:40:46] what exactly is that?

[00:40:47] It's just sugar and water?

[00:40:48] Sugar and water, and you...

[00:40:49] What are the ratios there?

[00:40:50] One to one.

[00:40:51] One to one.

[00:40:52] So one cup of sugar to one cup of water,

[00:40:55] and you just stir it on the, you know,

[00:40:58] heat it up on the stove until the sugar melts.

[00:41:01] You don't want to see any grains,

[00:41:03] any of the granules of the sugar.

[00:41:05] And then if you're putting something in it

[00:41:08] to infuse the simple syrup like rosemary,

[00:41:12] once it's heated,

[00:41:13] you just kind of dump the rosemary sprigs in.

[00:41:16] I put a cover on it,

[00:41:18] put it in the back of the stove

[00:41:19] and kind of forget about it for half an hour.

[00:41:21] Okay.

[00:41:22] And then strain it out,

[00:41:23] and you have a simple syrup with flavor in it.

[00:41:27] Wow.

[00:41:28] That sounds pretty easy.

[00:41:30] It's super simple.

[00:41:31] Lavender I've done.

[00:41:33] But yeah, so the rosemary,

[00:41:35] and then you combine that with grapefruit juice.

[00:41:39] I did fresh squeezed because why not?

[00:41:42] I think this was a new...

[00:41:43] I think we did this for New Year's, honestly.

[00:41:45] And then gin or vodka.

[00:41:50] I like it with gin.

[00:41:52] And then put that all together,

[00:41:55] and then you just like top it with club soda or...

[00:42:00] Okay.

[00:42:01] Any particular ratios of the liquids?

[00:42:03] I know the estuary has a...

[00:42:05] Oh, wait.

[00:42:06] Does the Narragansett Bay Estuary

[00:42:07] have a particular ratio of liquids?

[00:42:10] A density gradient.

[00:42:11] Density gradient.

[00:42:12] Wow.

[00:42:13] Let's see.

[00:42:15] So this...

[00:42:18] Usually I was doing about a one-to-one

[00:42:24] with the grapefruit juice and the alcohol.

[00:42:27] So if you were doing a shot of gin,

[00:42:30] I would do maybe a shot to a shot and a half

[00:42:33] of the grapefruit juice.

[00:42:35] And then put simple syrup to taste.

[00:42:38] It depends on if you like sweeter drinks or tartar drinks.

[00:42:42] And then shake that all in a cocktail shaker together.

[00:42:45] And then strain it into a glass

[00:42:47] and pour some club soda on it.

[00:42:49] There you go.

[00:42:50] Yeah.

[00:42:51] Nice and refreshing drink.

[00:42:52] That sounds really good.

[00:42:53] That sounds really delicious.

[00:42:54] It really was.

[00:42:56] So I have a question.

[00:42:58] Can you do this as a mocktail?

[00:43:01] Or is a mocktail something totally different?

[00:43:03] No, it can be.

[00:43:04] In this one, you just omit the gin or the vodka.

[00:43:08] And you would just do the simple syrup,

[00:43:10] the grapefruit juice, and the club soda.

[00:43:14] Oh, okay.

[00:43:15] But I also...

[00:43:16] You know, I've done...

[00:43:18] I have a different gin drink that was a lemonade.

[00:43:21] And we made homemade lemonade.

[00:43:24] So a squeezed, like, bunch of lemons.

[00:43:31] Bunch of lemons.

[00:43:32] Bunch of lemons.

[00:43:33] I did double as I think.

[00:43:34] Is that an official measure?

[00:43:35] Yes.

[00:43:36] Bunch.

[00:43:37] It's one of those bags.

[00:43:38] Yeah.

[00:43:39] Go grab a bag.

[00:43:40] Bag of lemons.

[00:43:41] Actually, that's what I did.

[00:43:42] Because I made a huge batch of this.

[00:43:43] Because it's a lemonade and it had cucumber in it,

[00:43:47] I put that aside.

[00:43:50] And then the folks who wanted a mocktail,

[00:43:53] who don't imbibe in the alcohol,

[00:43:54] you could have the cucumber lemonade.

[00:43:56] Wait a minute.

[00:43:57] Cucumber lemonade.

[00:43:59] How does this happen?

[00:44:00] So you got...

[00:44:01] I got lost with a bunch of lemons.

[00:44:02] That's okay.

[00:44:03] You take your...

[00:44:04] You squeezed a bunch of lemons.

[00:44:05] You squeezed a bunch of lemons to get the lemon juice.

[00:44:08] All right.

[00:44:09] Lemon juice.

[00:44:10] Because you want the lemon juice.

[00:44:11] Got it.

[00:44:12] Into a big pot.

[00:44:15] I put...

[00:44:16] I throw the rinds in.

[00:44:18] I just throw everything in a pot.

[00:44:20] A little bit of zest.

[00:44:21] A little zest.

[00:44:22] Pro tip here on the 2K Kitchen.

[00:44:25] Sugar.

[00:44:26] And, I can't remember how much sugar it was.

[00:44:30] I think it was only about a half a cup of sugar.

[00:44:32] It wasn't a lot of sugar.

[00:44:34] But again, that's a to taste thing.

[00:44:36] Some people like lemonade super sweet.

[00:44:38] Some people like it more tart.

[00:44:40] I lean onto the more tart side.

[00:44:44] So, I then kind of muddled the sugar.

[00:44:48] So I took a big spoon and put the sugar in with the lemon juice and the rinds.

[00:44:55] And kind of all just ground it up together to get more of the zest and the oil out of the rind.

[00:45:02] And then I added...

[00:45:04] You muddled it?

[00:45:05] Yes.

[00:45:06] It's called muddling.

[00:45:07] Is that true?

[00:45:08] That's a legitimate term.

[00:45:09] I just took a spoon and beat it up.

[00:45:12] Wow.

[00:45:13] I've never heard that before.

[00:45:14] If you have a cocktail shaker, usually it comes with like a muddle.

[00:45:16] A muddle?

[00:45:17] That's like a big wooden stick that you can grind stuff together with.

[00:45:22] You see people using it to make mojitos and things like that.

[00:45:25] That's like the classic muddled drink.

[00:45:27] Yes, it is.

[00:45:28] The mojito because you need to...

[00:45:30] Muddle the mint.

[00:45:31] Yes.

[00:45:32] Meow.

[00:45:33] Cats can't have mints.

[00:45:39] And then...

[00:45:41] So then what...

[00:45:43] So then I added water on top of it.

[00:45:45] I'm trying to think of actually how much water this was.

[00:45:47] So for every four lemons, it's like a quart of water.

[00:45:52] Wow.

[00:45:53] Yeah.

[00:45:54] Because you got to make...

[00:45:55] You got to dilute those lemons.

[00:45:56] Well, yes.

[00:45:57] Yes, you do.

[00:45:58] Okay.

[00:45:59] So it's...

[00:46:00] Let's see.

[00:46:01] Four lemons, a half cup of sugar, a quart of water.

[00:46:07] And so once you have the sugar and the lemons together, I add the water in and I...

[00:46:13] You stir it until the sugar is dissolved.

[00:46:15] I turned the heat up a little bit because sugar does not like to dissolve in cold water,

[00:46:19] so I used a little bit of a warmer water.

[00:46:22] And then once that was done, I put it in a pitcher, strained out the lemon rinds,

[00:46:28] put it in a giant pitcher, took a cucumber and sliced up...

[00:46:32] Cucumber slices very small.

[00:46:34] Ah, okay.

[00:46:35] And threw those in the lemonade and threw that...

[00:46:38] And put the whole pitcher in the refrigerator for an hour or so to let it meld

[00:46:44] and get all the flavors happy.

[00:46:46] Meld.

[00:46:47] It's like that water they give you at a spa.

[00:46:49] Yes, it's the famous spa.

[00:46:50] Have you ever been to a spa that has cucumber water?

[00:46:53] It's fancy water.

[00:46:54] It's really...

[00:46:55] We've just made fancy cucumber lemon water.

[00:46:59] And then basically just pull it out of the refrigerator,

[00:47:04] add your favorite shot of vodka or a shot of gin in with a glass

[00:47:09] and add some of the lemonade on top.

[00:47:11] And there you go.

[00:47:12] But again, if you want a mocktail, you have a whole pitcher of cucumber lemonade.

[00:47:18] Nice.

[00:47:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:47:20] Wow.

[00:47:21] Can you really taste the cucumber?

[00:47:22] Yes.

[00:47:23] You can.

[00:47:24] So very surprisingly, I was shocked at that.

[00:47:27] Wow.

[00:47:28] I didn't think of doing that, yeah.

[00:47:29] But of the picky non-alcohol drinking folks in my home, my children,

[00:47:35] I got one thumb up for the lemonade and one thumb in the middle,

[00:47:39] which means it was not good and it was not bad.

[00:47:41] Okay.

[00:47:42] You can't...

[00:47:43] Well, that's not bad.

[00:47:44] I take those all as successes.

[00:47:45] Yeah.

[00:47:46] That's a success in our house.

[00:47:47] Wow.

[00:47:48] Fantastic.

[00:47:49] Yeah.

[00:47:50] That's two great recipes for...

[00:47:52] I'll tell you.

[00:47:53] I'm going to go try them.

[00:47:54] Nice summer drinks.

[00:47:55] It's getting warmer.

[00:47:56] True.

[00:47:57] Sounds like the kind of thing you could definitely impress people with

[00:48:00] without a lot of effort, too.

[00:48:02] Zero effort.

[00:48:03] You made your own lemonade?

[00:48:04] Yes, exactly.

[00:48:05] This is...

[00:48:06] Cucumbers.

[00:48:07] Semi-homemade kitchen going on here.

[00:48:10] Low bar.

[00:48:12] Low bar.

[00:48:13] Thanks for sharing those great recipes, Courtney.

[00:48:16] They sound delicious.

[00:48:17] And thank you for being a guest on the Two Cat Kitchen.

[00:48:21] You're very welcome and thank you for having me.

[00:48:24] This was fun.

[00:48:25] That wraps up the recipe portion of the podcast and we will be right back on Two Cat Kitchen.

[00:48:31] And now it's time for another episode of Conversations with Cats, Who Know Where It's At.

[00:49:05] Today, we're continuing our conversation with Madame Lemieux.

[00:49:23] We're back with Conversations with Cats, Who Know Where It's At.

[00:49:57] We're back with Conversations with Cats, Who Know Where It's At.

[00:50:00] Continuing last episode's conversation with Madame Lemieux, noted socialite and artiste.

[00:50:06] Welcome back, Madame Lemieux.

[00:50:08] Thank you.

[00:50:09] I am a delight, aren't I?

[00:50:11] Yes, of course.

[00:50:12] Now, when we left off last episode, we were discussing your brief romance with the impresario Monsieur Ducrois.

[00:50:19] Is there any more you can tell us about this time in your life?

[00:50:23] I'm not going to give any saucy details, but what can I say?

[00:50:27] After he left me, I learned who I really was and became my own cat.

[00:50:33] Ah, truly inspirational words, Madame Lemieux.

[00:50:37] Well, we've heard the many roles you've played, but tell us, which did you find most challenging?

[00:50:44] Hmm. Oh, well, you know, I do think that time I played the cat in Cat's Cradle was one of the most difficult.

[00:50:53] You know, I had to be very flexible and required a lot of different acrobatics.

[00:50:58] And I had trained for months and months.

[00:51:02] And then still when I showed up on set, I found myself just stretched into new positions, but it was worth it in the end.

[00:51:11] It was difficult to fit in the cradle.

[00:51:13] I think that too.

[00:51:14] Well, that's fascinating. That's interesting to know.

[00:51:17] And we also know that you've been in several motion pictures.

[00:51:21] Are there any filming locations that stand out in your memory?

[00:51:25] Oh, well, there was this one time I was doing a very realistic real life drama about a scrappy cat who gets found in a sewer and has to survive the animal shelter.

[00:51:40] I went to a real shelter and I got to meet actual homeless dogs and cats and fish.

[00:51:46] And it was so moving to meet them and hear their stories.

[00:51:51] And I felt truly lucky to be able to portray their lives on the screen.

[00:51:56] Wow. And you got to meet actual fish?

[00:51:59] Oh, yes. They don't say much, but they do have a way in the water, don't they?

[00:52:05] Ah, that's what I've heard.

[00:52:07] Well, that's a fascinating story.

[00:52:09] Unfortunately, we must bring our time together to a close.

[00:52:12] Perhaps you'd be willing to grace us with a reading?

[00:52:15] Maybe one of the great soliloquies you've had to perform over the years?

[00:52:18] Oh, here's one.

[00:52:22] Very well. Where do I begin?

[00:52:25] My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with a low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for drudgery.

[00:52:33] My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet.

[00:52:38] My father would womanize. He would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark.

[00:52:45] Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only a genius could possess in the insane lament.

[00:52:55] Wow. That's super inspiring. Was that Shakespeare?

[00:52:59] No. Dr. Evil from Austin Powers.

[00:53:03] Oh, I see.

[00:53:04] I did a cat version.

[00:53:06] Okay. Well, actually do you have anything a little more classic? Perhaps something from the Bard himself?

[00:53:12] If I must.

[00:53:14] Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5.

[00:53:18] Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace from day to day to the last syllable of recorded time.

[00:53:27] And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death.

[00:53:32] Out! Out, brief candle!

[00:53:35] Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard.

[00:53:43] No rain.

[00:53:44] All I can say is that my life is pretty plain.

[00:54:13] I like watching the puddles gather rain.

[00:54:20] And all I can do is just pour some tea for two and speak my point of view.

[00:54:31] But it's not sane. It's not sane.

[00:54:39] I just want someone to say to me, oh, oh, oh, oh, always be there when you're away.

[00:54:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know I like to keep my cheeks dry today.

[00:55:01] So stay with me and I'll have it made.

[00:55:08] And I don't understand why I sleep all day.

[00:55:15] And I start to complain that there's no rain.

[00:55:23] And all I can do is read a book to stay awake.

[00:55:30] And it rips my life away, but it's a great escape.

[00:55:37] Escape. Escape. Escape.

[00:57:22] All I can say is that my life is pretty plain.

[00:57:29] You don't like my point of view.

[00:57:32] You think that I'm insane.

[00:57:36] It's not sane. It's not sane.

[00:57:45] I just want someone to say to me, oh, oh, oh, oh, always be there when you're away.

[00:57:58] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know I like to keep my cheeks dry today.

[00:58:07] So stay with me and I'll have it made.

[00:58:20] Oh, no, no.

[00:58:22] Gonna have it made.

[00:58:26] Yeah, I'm really gonna, really gonna have it made.

[00:58:43] That's all we have time for in this episode of the Two Cat Kitchen.

[00:59:04] We'd like to thank our special guest, Courtney Schmidt.

[00:59:07] More thanks to Sophia Pearson.

[00:59:10] And music by The Coconodes.

[00:59:13] I'm Rick McKinney.

[00:59:15] And I'm Sarah Grady.

[00:59:16] We'll catch you next time right here at the Two Cat Kitchen.

[00:59:19] The culinary two cat show.