Ginger Snap Swing

[00:00:07] Hello, no one is available to take- Two Cat Kitchen, it's time for us to pitch in and start another Two Cat Show. Down at the Two Cat Kitchen, we're starting on a mission to put you in the culinary know.

[00:00:29] We've got the finest recipes you ever will find, guaranteed to show you all a mighty fine time. Here at the Two Cat Kitchen, time for a new edition of the Culinary Two Cat Show. The Two Cat Show.

[00:00:55] Welcome to the Two Cat Kitchen, the show that mixes musical mayhem with culinary calamity. Rick McKinney is here to help with the mixing. Hey Rico, ready to go. Each episode includes new songs, a brand new recipe, and a special musical guest. Who's our musical guest today? Today we have Sunshine Menezes, singer and songwriter. Great, looking forward to talking with Sunshine.

[00:01:23] You know, we don't have a special segment for today's show, because we're going to spend a lot of time talking with Sunshine about her musical career and musical endeavors. And we also aren't going to hear from the Coconauts in this episode. Do you have any idea what they're up to these days? I did. I reached out to the Coconauts, and they're playing live at some bracket parties for the NCAA tournament. Oh, NCAA March Madness. March Madness. The Coconauts are in on it. They're mad. Interesting. Wonder how their brackets are doing.

[00:01:53] Who knows? But they're in the middle of the celebration, I'm sure. All right. Well, we'll be right back with tonight's guest, right here on the Two Cat Kitchen. We're back at the Two Cat Kitchen, and we're here with our musical guest. It's Sunshine Menezes. Sunshine, thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:21] Yeah, so Sunshine is a singer, and you've written some songs. Yeah, and you've been doing music for a while now. So tell us, what are you up to these days? What's been going on, musically speaking? Well, my husband, Ray A. Genere, owns a recording studio called Rectorium Records, and that's in our backyard, basically.

[00:02:41] So I am the on-hand backing vocalist for Rectorium Records, which means that whenever he has a need for a particular sound, because he obviously knows my sound very well, he makes a request to see if I'd be willing to come out and work on whatever album he's doing. Is this an on-demand thing? Like you're up at the house and like, quick, get down here, we need a vocal. I think that has happened, but usually it's evolved over time.

[00:03:10] It used to be that he would say, hey, so-and-so wants to do this piece, and I think you'd be just right for it. Are you willing to do it? And now he's kind of respecting my artistry enough to say to the people who he's recording, like, if you want sunshine, you need to make a request. So they kind of make a request in advance, so I have some advance notice. That's sweet. Yeah. So you get a chance to hear what they're asking you to do. Not necessarily. You're coming in cold?

[00:03:40] Yeah, I usually come in cold. Oh, wow. And so I'll come in. You know, Ray will play the piece for me. The recording artist will tell me kind of what they're looking for. Ray might have some coaching points to offer because he really likes to do vocal coaching. And then I just go into the studio and let it rip. Wow. Yeah. That's great fun. It is fun. Session vocalist. I am. I'm a session vocalist. A session backing vocalist. Fantastic.

[00:04:09] You didn't have to move to New York to do it. No. No. The luxury of my own home, basically. There you go. That's great. Yeah. All right. That's great. And then I know that both Dave and I have known you for a while now, I think, and I've known you musically, but we don't really know how you got started in music. How did that come about? If we could go way back, like maybe high school, maybe before then? Sure. How did it go?

[00:04:35] Well, I guess the first way in which I did anything in front of other people was in elementary school. There were, you know, like elementary school plays. And so they often involved singing. So there's that. Okay. Um, but then I didn't do anything. Well, that's not true. I played in band. I played flute, um, starting in middle school and until about 10th grade, I think. Mm-hmm.

[00:05:02] And then in my school, I grew up in this very small town in northern Michigan. And at the time, uh, you either did sports in the spring or you were in the spring play. There was no, you know, dual option. Mm-hmm. And so I played softball, which was the spring sport. And so my senior year in high school, I decided I wanted to go out for the play, which was a musical. And it was called, um, The Princess and the Pea. Oh, yeah. And, uh.

[00:05:31] Very common high school production. And I got the role of The Witch. Oh, cool. And it was so much fun because I got to go way over the top with this role. And I sang my butt off and it was so much fun. And I scared little kids and I made the older people laugh. So that was like my first real performance. Really? Wow. Yeah. And you were hooked. I was. Yeah. I was. That's great. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:01] So after that, like, uh, so you went off to college? And, um, did you continue to perform? Sadly, no. I, so when I was in college, I ended up dating musicians. Um, so that was like my proximity to music was kind of dating men who were in bands. Sadly. I, I did, I just didn't have the nerve to try to sing, to be in a band myself at the time. Mm-hmm. So it really was not until I met you, Rico.

[00:06:31] Well, first I met our, our friend Tom. Um, and he was interested in getting this world music band together. And because I speak Spanish and, and Portuguese and a little French, I was a good person to kind of rope into this. Mm-hmm. So first, um, Tom was like, are you interested in doing this? And then he brought Rick in and, um, another, my former boyfriend. Mm-hmm.

[00:06:58] Um, and I think it was just the four of us at first. Mm-hmm. Do you remember Rick? Yes, I do remember that. And, uh, that was your, kind of like your first band? Yeah. Ooh. Oh, well, actually, wait, I'm going to back up. The year before that, I started playing out with my friend Jamie, who was also in the same graduate school program as me, um, at the time. Uh, was he like a drummer guy? No. No, guitar. Oh, okay. Yeah, and singer. Wrong, Jamie. Yeah. Oh, wow.

[00:07:27] So we started just kind of playing open mics, and that was, like, since that high school play, that was the first time I played out. And that's really when I got hooked. Oh, good. Uh, and then when Tom, and it was because of that that Tom approached me about this other band, Chiva Bus. Oh, okay, so he saw you. Yeah. I think I remember him saying that he saw you at an open mic or something. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, okay, well, that's great. And so now... And now... And that was... You know where we land, right? Yeah.

[00:07:57] So that was in the late 90s. Late 90s, yeah. I'd say 98 or 99 at latest. Yeah. Um... Yeah, and still, in my... And I've been in a lot of bands, and it's still the best, the most fun band ever. It was so much fun. Yeah. I mean, just, the music was just so, uh, incredible. Yeah. And, uh, and I, I mean, I thought you were, like, a pro singer, man. I thought it was just, like, wow, she's really good. Nope. Yeah.

[00:08:27] We're really fortunate to be, to have this woman singing with us, my God. Did you, did you find it challenging at all? I know when I joined Chiva Bus, uh, the band was already formed. Yep. Um, and I do recall folks coming in with a recording of, uh, uh, Brazilian, you know, artists. Yep. The words were all in Portuguese, and there were, like, eight percussionists. And I was just playing the drum set.

[00:08:56] And I'm thinking, all right, how am I going to replicate this sound? Right. And it was a blast for me, because it was a genre I had, I played Latin jazz. Mm-hmm. Just on the kit. But this was involving, uh, you know, tambale and bungos and hand percussion. Right. All within my drum set. And so it was just fun to try new things and have a blast with it. Yeah. Did you find that a challenge with the different, uh, the different genres that we were exploring as a band?

[00:09:23] Because it was some very, it was a very diverse menu of international music we were exploring. Well, so, for, so, yes, I absolutely see why this was challenging and fun for you. For me, it was a different sort of challenge, right, because I was singing. And I played flute a little bit, um, but I'm a very mediocre flute player, so I did that just a little. Um, so for me, the challenge was, okay, I'm going to be singing a song in Spanish, and then a song in Portuguese, and then a song in French, then a song in English, and, you know, et cetera.

[00:09:55] And, um, sometimes I just was, like, doing it phonetically, you know, to be honest. Like, there were some songs where I was like, I don't really know what I'm talking about right now. I'm just going to sing this based on what it sounds like. Um, which I wouldn't do at this point in my life. I would be more focused on, like, really learning the words in that language. But at the time, whatever. Yeah. I didn't care as much. Right.

[00:10:24] Um, and, but there were... Well, actually, to your defense, I think some of those songs, you couldn't figure out what they were about. That's true. Because I remember asking you for one particular song, I forget what it is now, what are the words, what is this song about? What are the words saying? Uh-huh. And you and Tom, Tom spoke some Spanish, too. Yes. And some Portuguese. Yeah. And some Portuguese. You have this discussion about what the words were saying. And you knew what the words were saying, but you just couldn't... It didn't make sense. It didn't make any sense. And it didn't make any sense to me.

[00:10:53] It's like something about the pants on a deer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember that one. It's like, the deer is wearing pants. Colloquialism, I guess. That's a saying. What does it mean? Well, I think it's saying something about the masculinity of the deer. That deer wears the pants in the family. Exactly.

[00:11:23] But that's the kind of thing that would happen. So, I don't think that you could, in your defense, you couldn't really necessarily figure out what some of these crazy-ass Brazilian songs are saying. Well, and Tom has still this incredible ability to find the most random music, obscure music is a better word, in the world. Yeah. And so, you know, the ability to search for lyrics online has progressed markedly since we started this band.

[00:11:53] At the time, you would do searches for a lot of these songs. I did this. Yeah. And there was nothing. You know, so unless I sat down with someone who actually spoke that language fluently, I really did have a lot of guesswork. So, it's quite possible that our interpretation of a deer wearing pants could have been a little off. But, like, you just made me think, though, of one of the songs that we did for a long

[00:12:16] time, Banho Xerozu, which is a Brazilian song, and that translates to, like, scented bath is a nice way to say it. But we used to joke and call it smelly bath. Yeah. I do remember that. Yeah. And it was this really, you know, fun, upbeat song that was about, like, taking a bath and throwing all these different, like, herbs and flowers and stuff into the bath. And it would, like, rejuvenate you and make you feel all good again.

[00:12:43] But it was kind of funny when you literally translated the words. Like, I'm going to throw some basil in and some lemongrass and, you know, like, all these random things. Yeah. So, yes. It was, I guess that for me, the biggest challenge was not mechanical in terms of singing. It was like, what the heck am I saying? It was great fun.

[00:13:08] And it was always a laugh because we'd be playing in a club and obviously people are celebrating and people would go up and, I love you guys. You guys are fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know what we're saying. Yes. Yes. Well, and definitely true in this place where we live that certainly at the time did not have a lot of people who were speaking Spanish or Portuguese. Maybe French. Right. Thankfully, we didn't have as many French songs. Or if we did, they were like Creole.

[00:13:38] So there weren't a lot of people around here that would know those languages so we could get away with it. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun. It was fun. And we would have people who came up to us who knew the words and knew the music. And we had a percussionist, I recall, come in and want to join us. And he was a great percussionist. Yes. But yeah, he had some energy. He had a lot of energy. He had a lot of energy. It was fun. It was fun. It was fun music.

[00:14:06] And people who could approach the music with an open mind, I think, really enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we were offering something very different from all of the other music in this local area. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It was definitely unique. Yeah. With that in mind, we're going to take a quick break here. We'll be right back.

[00:14:39] Well, thanks for joining us again, Sunshine. It was good to see you. Can you talk a little bit about the musical work you did after Cheever Bus? Absolutely. Well, so Cheever Bus really was my first band, right? And I am really grateful to you guys, I just want to say, for making that so much fun and welcoming and not stressful, for the most part.

[00:15:03] So that kind of opened the door for me to do some other things and built my own confidence, right? Just to be trying out new things. And I also met my husband because of Cheever Bus, honestly. And as I mentioned before, he's a musician and he's been a professional musician for a long time. That's been his whole adult life, basically.

[00:15:28] So he and I began dating and we decided to start a band together that we called The Subsonics, which was actually named after a nickname a friend had given to Ray because his voice is really low. So that's where The Subsonics came from. So it was Ray and me and another good friend of ours, Ted Stevens, who's another musician who's been around in Rhode Island for a long time and now lives in Florida.

[00:15:58] And it was just a really fun cover band, mostly. We did a few of Ted's originals. But for the most part, we just did all these fun covers that were like from rockabilly to some more bluesy stuff to some more soulful stuff. It was really fun and a very different set of music than I had done with Cheever Bus, you know? So it was fun to just kind of spread out my own chops a little bit.

[00:16:27] And again, playing with really talented musicians. I've just been really lucky in that way. And so in the Subsonics kind of morphed over time because Ted moved away from Rhode Island and then we brought in another guitar player and then we added a drummer. And so just like Cheever Bus over time kind of switched our players, so did the Subsonics.

[00:16:56] But because Ray and I were in it consistently, it kept being a Subsonic. Sure. So that was really fun. And then I got sick. I got cancer and I had treatment for a long time and it really kind of derailed a lot of my life, including music. And when I was finally recovering from that, I got this amazing fellowship from the Rhode

[00:17:22] Island Foundation here in Rhode Island that was designed to give executive directors of nonprofits in Rhode Island a kind of a little mini respite from their work. So you kept working throughout this fellowship, which at the time was 18 months, but you got a grant of up to $10,000 to do something that fed a passion of yours that had nothing to do with your professional life.

[00:17:50] And for me, that was music. And especially since I hadn't been doing anything for a while. And I had gotten really into Western swing at this time. Actually, can we take a quick time out? Because you mentioned executive directors and that's something that's very important that I think people would like to hear a little bit about. Sure. Because you were an executive director of a very influential organization here in Southern New England, right? Could you tell us a little bit about that before we go on? Sure.

[00:18:19] So yes, I led Metcalf Institute at the University of Rhode Island for almost 18 years. And so Metcalf Institute is a program that seeks to improve public conversations around environmental issues, specifically through science training for professional journalists from all over the world and communication training for scientists.

[00:18:44] So the idea there was by working on kind of both sides of this equation, we might get better news coverage and better just conversations about environmental issues going. So at the point when I got this fellowship, it was 2012, I think. And so I had been there for six years at that point. The fellowship itself was amazing. I got to meet all of these other really cool people in Rhode Island doing very important

[00:19:13] work in all kinds of sectors. But also, I got to do this project that was just about my own passion, right? And so the thing that I chose was to work on a Western swing album. And so it wasn't just working on a Western swing album. It was also, I went to a songwriting workshop in Texas with Kevin Welch, who's a really accomplished

[00:19:41] country songwriter who was on the row in Nashville for a long time and a great musician in his own right. And that was incredible for me. And in fact, I met someone there named Philip Wildman, an incredible, coincidentally, Western swing musician who has become a really close friend for me and my husband. And I also took some guitar lessons.

[00:20:10] I took voice lessons for the first time in my life, which was amazing. And I wrote some songs and recorded them at the rectorium. And this all happened because Philip knows all of these incredible musicians in Texas. And so he pulled together this band for me that all came together in this house that Philip has on his property.

[00:20:40] We gathered together. And this was everything from the engineer to a mandolin player, a drummer, a stand-up bassist, a guitar player, a fiddler, a pedal steel player, you know, all soup to nuts. I had this incredible band of incredibly talented musicians who included Jack Brown, this legendary

[00:21:10] Western swing guitarist who was in the Sacramento Western Swing Hall of Fame, and Jim Chancellor, who's known as Texas Shorty, another just really incredibly talented fiddle player. So we all came together, and Ray was producing this whole thing. And of course, Philip played on this too. And so while we have, you know, the ranch in the background, all this cattle in the background

[00:21:39] and like the vistas of northern Texas, we came together and made some really incredible music. That's great. What a thrill. And you had the vibe and the artist of that culture. So in some ways, it's another cultural experiment. Absolutely. That's a very good point. Yeah. So, right. So Chiva Bus was very much a cultural experiment, you know, and this was too. And I'm just so grateful for it.

[00:22:09] You know, it was a one-and-done album, Shiner and Her Lucky Pennies, the, what's that word? Eponymous? Eponymous. I can't ever say that word. But, you know, the word where you name the album after yourselves. Oh, yeah. But it was incredible. A really great experience to do this. And I just feel so lucky. That's great. You know, and I think we're going to hear one of the songs from your album, if that's okay. Yeah. The song Birdie. Oh. Can you tell us a little bit about it?

[00:22:39] Yes. So, I think this was the first full song that I ever wrote. And it's very simple, as we'll hear in just a moment. It's a very simple melody and a simple song. But when I had this written when I went to that songwriting workshop. And one of the first nights we were there, you know, we did kind of a circle with all the students in this workshop. And everyone played a song.

[00:23:05] And so, I couldn't play guitar well enough to play this. But Philip actually played with me. And I sang Birdie. And everyone loved it. And I was blown away by that. You know, I had so much imposter syndrome in being at this songwriting workshop. And I thought, well, this is just a stupid little song, whatever. But I played it and people loved it. And even Kevin Welch said, you know, you've got something.

[00:23:35] You know, keep working on this. So, this is Birdie. He likes to hop and sing. He flits and floats over everything. Skittles to the middle. If I want him in the center, then he jumps off a ledge.

[00:24:24] He just can't head and gives me away.

[00:26:34] So, Sunshine, it's the time in the podcast where we ask you, what is your earliest musical memory? Okay. Well, I need to give the caveat, first of all, that this is kind of vague, this memory. But let me give you the background to this memory, which is that I grew up in a very musical circumstance. My parents are both musicians.

[00:27:00] My dad has played guitar and sung as long as I can remember. My mom used to sing a lot. She kind of got away from this earlier than my dad got away from music. But so, when I was a very young kid, my parents would, you know, have their friends over or go to friends' houses and play music together. There were just these, like, informal jams that happened all the time.

[00:27:27] I mean, it's the early to mid-70s right now in this memory. And these were, you know, all young hippies who were doing their thing. And so, I was just really enveloped by music when I was young. And, you know, my parents had a big record collection and there was always music playing at home.

[00:27:51] So, my earliest memories are not a particular moment. It's just that kind of amorphous being surrounded by music and just how happy it made people, you know? So, yeah. Yeah, that's a great memory. I mean, that can really be influential, I guess. And obviously, it struck a chord with you. Yeah.

[00:28:17] And even, you may not even have recognized it at the time, the influence it had. Was there, I remember meeting your mom and dad one time when you were performing with Chiva Bus. Yes. What did they think of that? What did they think from that? That whole thing was so much fun. So, they surprised me. So, they had worked it out with Tomo, actually, that they were going to come to a show at Hanson's Landing. Unannounced. Yes.

[00:28:46] Unannounced to me. Yeah. They just showed up. They live, you know, an 18-hour drive away, by the way. Sure. So, this is no small thing. That's right. So, they showed up at the show. So, I like walk in and to start getting set up. And, you know, you guys can both appreciate that I could be on Diva Time because I was just the singer. So, I only needed to bring my cord and my mic. So, you know full well that I did not show up especially early for our gigs. But anyway, I got there.

[00:29:14] And who's sitting right in the table closest to the stage but my parents. I was like, what is happening right now? Anyway, so, they loved it. You know, they absolutely loved hearing us. And, yeah, I think they were just proud and excited to see this being carried on. Yeah. That's great. That's great. It's nice to see that in your kids, you know, my son Ben plays.

[00:29:42] And it's fun to see the grandchildren now come around and want to be part of it. And you don't realize it at the time but how much of an influence it has and how they carry that forward. So, I'm sure your parents really enjoyed that moment. They do. Yeah. All right. So, we're going to check out another song here in the kitchen. What do you got for us? Well, this song is technically called Coming Home to You.

[00:30:08] But I have my own personal subtitle for this song which is the Climate Change Blues. Wow. That sounds intriguing. Let's give it a listen and we'll be back and talk about it a little bit.

[00:33:29] Sunshine, that's a great song. A lot of fun. Thanks. It must have been fun recording. It was so much fun. Yeah. I loved it. Did you feel as you explored this genre, your voice sounds different than it did when we were doing Latin music. So, what did you do to kind of get that country sound? Well, I listened to a lot of Western swing, you know. But also, remember I was taking voice lessons at this time.

[00:33:56] So, I was really learning how to control my voice better and like some real techniques that I had never known before. I mean, I just started singing. I just started singing, right? I didn't even think about how I was doing it or to prepare myself for a show or anything, you know. So, I was exploring some of those techniques as I was doing the vocals for this album.

[00:34:26] Yeah. So, I guess it was that, you know. I also just really like playing around with different sounds. I think this comes from my love of languages, actually. And so, it was fun to just kind of sort of put on a different costume in a way. You know what I mean? Anyway, I guess that's my answer to that question. Yeah, that's great. And the coaching you were getting, was it particularly around country? No. No? No.

[00:34:56] Just voice in general. Yes, this woman. I mean, I had wanted to do voice lessons for a long time, but I was afraid that I would find a vocal coach who just wanted to teach me how to sing show tunes. Right. You know, and that's not what I wanted. Right. I wanted someone who could work with what I have and show me how to make it better. Mm-hmm. And I found this incredible woman in Providence who had been a professional jazz singer. Mm-hmm.

[00:35:52] Did you put together, or did Ray have a hand in it? Yes, Ray definitely had a hand in this. I mean, I came up with a melody. Yeah. And in fact, I'm thinking about a lyric right now. There's this one lyric in that song that Ray and I were constantly debating with each other. So, there's one line that says, nothing will stop me from coming home to you. And he said, you can't say stop. Say keep. Nothing will keep me from coming home to you. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:19] Because he insists that if you put a word like stop in a song, it jars the listener. Mm-hmm. And he's like, the last thing you want to do is make your listener stop in the moment and get distracted from going with the flow of the music. And I put my foot down and I was like, no, I want stop. I'm going to leave stop in there. But the arrangement, to your question, yeah, Ray definitely had a big hand in the arrangement.

[00:36:48] And also, again, the original recording in that house on Phillips Ranch, you know, just we had so many talented musicians in the room that there was a lot of just kind of discussion about it in the moment. Like, oh, you know, it would be cool if you, Shorty, would come in here and do this little lick. It would be cool if you would come in over here and do this thing.

[00:37:11] And then Ray, as the producer, just figured out how to, like, manipulate all of this great tape, so to speak, that we had and turn it into that. That's great. Yeah, you can hear those Western swing cliché turnarounds that probably those guys put in just because the space was there, you know? Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. So that's really great. I mean, great song. A happy, it was a happy little melody, but the words are. They're kind of dark.

[00:37:41] I was inspired. A little bit of tension there. Yes, there's definitely some tension there. I came up with the idea for that song after I had gone to Mobile, Alabama for a conference, and this huge ice storm hit when I was there. And it's Mobile. Nobody knew how to deal with ice. And I'm talking like an inch of ice. And these poor fools were out there trying to scrape off their cars with credit cards, and, you know, like, they did not know what to do at all.

[00:38:10] And I was there with a friend of mine from Rhode Island, and we were just, you know, marveling at how odd it was to be in this ice storm in Mobile, Alabama, of all places. Wow. And so that kind of stuck in my head for a while, you know, and all of my good song ideas come to me when I'm walking my dog in the morning. So I, for a period of time, would just walk around. I would carry my phone with me and just do voice memos.

[00:38:37] I had, like, hundreds of really terrible short voice memos of me coming up with phone ideas. That was one. Someday someone's going to publish all those. I hope not. I think I have you beat that. I got more bad song ideas than you did. I got, like, a million and one. A million and one. You never know. Yeah, okay. Well, you have a recipe for us, too. I do. And we're going to take a quick break, but we'll come back and check that out.

[00:39:23] We're back at the Two Cat Kitchen in Sunshine. You have a recipe for us today. What do you have? I do. I'm very excited about this recipe. So, and I have this on, for our listeners' sake, I want to tell you, I have this on an actual index card. So, you know, often these days you go, like, Google for your recipe. But this is called Grandma Dubé's Ginger Snaps. Old school. Old school. This is from a very good friend of mine from college.

[00:39:51] This is her grandmother's recipe for ginger snaps. My friend wrote this out on a card. So it's doubly meaningful to me because it's my friend's handwriting in this wonderful green ink on an index card with her grandmother's ginger snap recipe. It's also got some wear on it. It has some wear. Clearly. Yes. So some recipes may, some ingredients may have touched that card. Well, I actually spilled coffee on it this morning.

[00:40:21] Excellent. Oh, thank you. Very all thank you. Yeah. So should I just give you the ingredients first? Yeah. So, yeah. What are we talking about ingredient-wise here? So this is such an easy recipe. So you take two and one quarter cups of flour, just all-purpose flour. All-purpose. Two teaspoons of ginger. This is just- Ground ginger. Ground ginger, yep. One teaspoon baking soda. Ah. One teaspoon cinnamon. Mmm. A half teaspoon of cloves, ground cloves. Yeah, got it.

[00:40:50] And then, so you mix all those dry ingredients up together. Okay. Then you cream together three quarters of a cup unsalted butter with- Now the recipe calls for one cup sugar. Yes. I recommend you decrease that to three quarters cup sugar. Mm-hmm. Just because, I mean, it's obviously fine with a full cup. It's still delicious, but it can get a little too sweet. Yeah, back in Grandma Doobie's day, you know.

[00:41:19] Exactly. The sugar was king. Yes, of course. Sugar worked. Okay, so then you cream the sugar and the butter together. Then you add in one egg. Mm-hmm. All right. Full egg and a quarter cup black-strap molasses. Ah, blackstrap. Critical ingredient. Yep. Yes. Not the other kind. Not the other kind. Whatever that is. Yeah. Actually, we have that debate here at the bulk food store. Do you?

[00:41:46] Because it's not clear exactly what is what in the molasses world these days because, I mean, the easy way to think about it would be blackstrap and then unsulfured, for example. Oh, okay. But then we have gotten molasses in that says blackstrap, parentheses, unsulfured. So, that kind of kills that whole thought right there. So, we're not really sure what the deal is with molasses.

[00:42:15] Just go to the molasses influences and find out. Yeah. Yeah. So, blackstrap. Well, I just, again, for our listeners, I will say that what is actually written here is one quarter cup molasses and in parentheses, blackstrap. Yes. Okay. So, they had an idea. So, I always look for blackstrap when I buy molasses. I think you can get grandma's molasses. Grandma. Is it grandma Moses? It is. Yeah. Or it's grandma something. Grandma something's molasses. I think you'd be good. Blackstrap. That's what I used when I made this recipe yesterday. Okay.

[00:42:45] Okay. Okay. So, now you add the egg and the molasses to the butter and the sugar, right? And then once that's all mixed up really well, then you combine the wet to the dry. You have preheated your oven to 350, by the way. Okay. Okay. And then you roll, once you have the dough all made, then you just roll it up into one to one and a half inch balls. And then the next step that you don't have to do, but I often do, is to actually roll

[00:43:15] those balls in sugar, which is another reason to cut down on the sugar in the dough. Yeah. Okay. I see that. Yeah. And it just, it may... That wasn't an original grandma doobies. It is. Yeah. It is. It's a little asterisk here on the card. It says, sugar in small dish for quote unquote coating. Oh. This is optional. Okay. Sorry, grandma. Don't mess up Grandma Dubé's recipe here. I didn't mean to disrespect you grandma.

[00:43:44] She'll be back. All right. So you've rolled these into balls, right? You coat or you don't coat in the sugar, whatever you prefer. And then you put them on an ungreased cookie sheet. Okay. You then, so another little trick here is to put a glass in the freezer and then have like a little bowl with some water in it. So once you've put the bowls on the, or I'm sorry, once you've put the balls of dough on

[00:44:10] the sheets, then you come out with your little icy glass, quickly dip it in your little bowl of water and press down with the bottom of the glass, the flat bottom of the glass to flatten out the cookies. This makes them incredibly uniform in size. It just makes them beautiful little cookies. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Did I just blow your mind? Because A, why is the glass in the freezer? And B, why are you dipping it in the water? What does it do?

[00:44:40] It makes them stick less. They stick less to the glass when you do it that way. Because it's a sticky dough. Think about all that molasses in there. Oh, blackstrap. Nonetheless. Okay, now I'm with you. Yeah, but it seems like a rather elaborate way to make it less sticky. I mean, in this day and age. I don't know. It works well. You would think that there might be a better way, but I'll go with it. The automatic unsticker riser?

[00:45:09] I don't know what that is. It works well. Is this in Grandma Doobie's thing? Yes. Okay, I'm going to just read this to you because you seem very doubtful. Here's what is the actual recipe, okay? Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Mix dry ingredients in one bowl. Set aside. Cream butter and sugar. Mixing well. Add egg and molasses. Add wet to dry. Mixing well. Roll into one to one and a half inch balls. Roll in sugar to coat. I love just the simplicity of these sentences. Yeah, get right to the point.

[00:45:39] Place on un-underlined greased cookie sheet. Press flat with bottom of cold wet glass in parentheses to prevent sticking. Grandma Doobie knew what she was doing. Yes. And back in those days, they didn't have, you know, the technology. Go on. Okay, and to complete this now, you bake for, the recipe says eight to nine minutes. I would say seven to nine minutes. Depends, of course, on your oven.

[00:46:05] If you want a chewier cookie, you undercook a little bit. Then you just cool for a couple of minutes, put it on a little rack to fully, you know, firm up. They are delicious. They are so delicious, in fact, that I always double this recipe when I make it. No kidding. Because half of them goes a day of. Exactly. And how many does it make about? So just having done this yesterday, I think I came out with 90 cookies. Wow.

[00:46:35] Again, that's doubled. That's doubling the recipe, but. Cookie factory. But I was also, I was going to a birthday party, so I took a big chunk of them with me. So just so you don't think that my husband and I will eat 90 cookies in two weeks. Wow. That's great. Fantastic. Wow. That's a great recipe. Yeah. I think we'll have to see how our listeners respond to this recipe. This is great. Two teaspoons of ginger, ground ginger. Two teaspoons, yeah. And that gives you the ginger. Yes. Wow. That's powerful stuff.

[00:47:05] And the clove, too, is, I mean, that's a big part of their flavor. They're a little spicy. Yeah. They are a little spicy. I mean, some people, I know, like to put chunks of whole ginger or candied ginger into their cookies. I've never tried that with these because this recipe is perfection. Oh, that's good. I don't mess with it. Mm-hmm. It's just so good. Thank you, Grandma, for that. Sounds great. I think I might give it a try. Call me up. I'll be right over. Makes your house smell great, too.

[00:47:35] Sounds good. Hey, well, you're going to leave us with another song, I think, from your album. And, again, we'll have information on how folks can listen to that in the show notes so they can get to that. And this song is not a song that you wrote, but it's a cover of a Western swing song? Yes. Okay. Tell us a little bit about it. So this song is called Crying in the Deep Blue Sea. It was written by Hank Thompson.

[00:48:07] Oh, yeah. Big Hank Thompson fan. Yeah. And, I mean, that guy had some twang on him, you know? So I highly recommend you listen to his original version of this. Yeah. I love this song. I mean, it's a sad song, Crying in the Deep Blue Sea, as you might guess. But I don't know. It just makes me so happy. I love this song. I just think it's beautiful. So it was a lot of fun, especially to do this song with these incredible Western swing players. Sure.

[00:48:36] And they knew it. Yeah. Oh, Cold. Yes. Yeah. Wow. That's fantastic. Great fun. And, you know, before we hear the song, we're going to go out with this song. And we'd like to thank you for being a guest. Thanks so much. It was so great talking to you. So great seeing you again. Yeah. My pleasure. It's been a while. Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Okay. So we're going to listen to Crying in the Deep Blue Sea.

[00:49:06] Well, I went to see my baby. He said, sit away. Flat tire. And I'm letting you go.

[00:49:17] No use as this.

[00:50:57] And now I got them walking shoes.

[00:53:18] That's all we have time for in this episode of the Two Cat Kitchen. We'd like to thank our musical guest, Sunshine Menezes. We'll see you all next time right back here at the Two Cat Kitchen. The culinary tune.